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Guide to Solo Defense Turtles in Game of War – Troops (Part 5)

Turtle Accounts Part 5 – Troops

Welcome to part 5 in a series of articles on designing a turtle account to take full T3-4 solo marches. This is the one you have probably been waiting for: training an army……

Base power - sh18This is where we currently are up to.  We have given an overview of the goals of a single march turtle in Part 1, gone into depth on what research is useful for turtles in Part 2, discussed which single buildings are valuable, and which can be considered for deconstruction at various timepoints in Part 3, and then talked briefly about the ways in which you can structure your hospitals barracks and villas in Part 4.

At right is a screenshot of a turtle that has basically done all of that.  It has made its decision on whether to train regular or strategic research, picked its stronghold level (in this case sh18), completed the core combat research for academy 18, and built a preliminary set of barracks and villas to train the army it is considering.  It has a level 48 hero.  So, before troops and traps, it has a base power of just over 13M, with around 2M additional base power expected from leveling hero up to level 50.  The owner is seriously regretting opening ANY of the empire quests.  Even though it is only 1M quests power, they wished they hadn’t opened ANY empire quests.

So, basically all the preliminary work has been done, and they are moving into a phase of deciding which troops and traps to build on top of their base power of 13-15M.  They have decided that 20 tier 1 swordsmen and a few Tier 1 and Tier 2 siege troops with combined troop power of 66 will not really be able to deal with a full march of T3-4.  Although, they have been really useful for fake rallying their level 48 hero using their level 1 hall of war.  😉

“The essence of strategy is choosing what not to do.”

We have previously discussed the diminishing returns for doing higher level combat researches, in that it costs relatively more for the level 9 and level 10 researches, in that whilst the payoff is high, the cost to complete them in terms of resources / silver / speedups and power gain is MUCH higher than the level 7-8 researches.

When it comes to troops, in general, the same considerations of diminishing return from higher levels is true.  For more detail, see the t4 vs t3 vs t2 vs t1 – guide to troop tiers.  This section will repeat some of the detail included there, but with more of a turtle focus.

Troop Power Levels

Power Resource Cost Silver Cost Training Time KE Hospital Points KE Kill Points TROOP STRENGTH
T1 2 50 0 1 0 1 1
T2 8 100 5 2 1 5 2
T3 24 150 10 4 20 40 3
T4 36 1000 500 8 100 100 4.5

Tier 2 troops are twice as ‘strong’ as Tier 1, and cost twice as much, take twice as long to train, but require some silver to train, give more points if hospitalized or killed, and are 4 times the power gain of a T1.

Tier 3 troops are 50% stronger than Tier 2 troops, and 3 times as strong as Tier 1 troops. Tier 3 cost 50% more than T2 to train, twice as much silver, take twice as long to train, and put on 3 times the power, whilst costing alot more points when hospitalized or killed.

Tier 4 troops are 50% stronger than Tier 3 troops, but cost 6-7 times as much, and 50 times more silver, 5 times as many hospitalization points, and more than twice as many points if killed.

Compared to T1s, T4s put on 18 times more power, cost 20 times more resources, infinity times more silver (500 vs 0), take 8 times as long to train, give 100 times more points if killed in KE, but are ONLY 4.5 times as strong as T1s.

Troop stats relative to Troop STRENGTH

When thinking about designing a turtle, some people say that the strength of your army is the most important characteristic. On that basis, if we divide all of the stats of the troops by their ‘strength’ as the denominator, we should get an important comparison of troops using strength as the common comparator. So, for example, each T1 troop has a power gain of 2 points, with a strength of 1. So, 2 / 1 = 2. Each T4 has a power gain of 36 points, whilst they have a relative strength of 4.5. This means their Power / strength is 36 / 4.5 = 8.

We have colored the table below with Green being best, red being worst, and amber in-between.

Troop strength table

 

 

 

 

 

So, if you want maximum bang for your buck, both in cost terms, as well as in terms of efficient use of POWER in your build, then T1 troops are by far the best bargain you will ever get, with T2 a close second. MZ finally realized that the smart players had worked this out, and MZ performed what they called a ‘NERF’ on mass armies of T1 and T2 troops, as outlined here.

Where that NERF level kicks in is not 100% known. The common consensus appears to be that the NERF kicks in around 5M to 10M tier 1 troops, after which adding more Tier 1 troops has little (or no) incremental benefit. A future article will try and answer the question of where a T1 NERF kicks in for a turtle. I’m sure quite a few of you will be surprised by the outcomes when it is tested systematically.

By the time you get to reading this guide, it is likely that you will already have unlocked Academy level 15 and T3 troops. Most people only really start looking for information on how to do stuff once it all starts getting harder and they have to start making some tough decisions. Up until Academy 15, most people just follow the well-worn path that MZ has laid out.

Many players comment that early on, they hated how ‘weak’ T1-2 troops are, and how useless traps appear. But at that point, most people’s research is pretty average, both on the troop and trap side. So, their T1-2 troops with no Troop Health research, and only individual troop defense and individual troop attack research at levels 2-5, usually get MONSTERED by players with T3 troops who have their researches up at level 6-8. It is not an apples to apples comparison, so most people discount the value of T2, and particularly T1 troops as not much better than useless.

Once you do the testing under controlled conditions, you will find that in terms of base stats, T2s are twice as ‘strong’ as T1s. And T3s ONLY 50% stronger than T2s. And T4s ONLY 50% stronger again than T3s. It is the difference in research levels and hero gear that makes the difference between tiers of troops seem bigger. Get the research sorted out first, and you will be pleasantly surprised at how effective T1-2 troops are, particularly in defending your stronghold.

UPDATE: 20th April, 2015

With the recent introduction of the ‘Enemy Power Destroyed’ Kill Event points system, the above chart is now somewhat simplified, by removing the last two columns on KE points for kills and hospitalisations.  It really strips back the points equations to just Power and Strength.

Troop tier power strength

 

Basically, from this point forward, this is all that matters.  Power and Strength.  What you can see from the above table is that T3 and T4 are identical when it comes to their power / strength ratio.  Where previously it made absolute sense from a Kill Event Points perspective to include a T3 meat shield on attack, now if you have a T3 meat shield in front of your T4, the damage delivered to your army will basically deliver the opponent the same points / power destroyed result because the power / strength ratio is identical. If they deliver enough damage to affect 50k T4, that same damage will affect 75k T3.  The POWER change is the same, the KE points are the same, the only difference now is that it still costs 6-7 times as much RSS, 50 times as much silver and 2 times as much speedups to train a T4 compared to a T3.  On the other hand, T2 do save power, points and RSS when used as an attacking meat shield.  Time to learn how to use T2 meat shields.

END UPDATE

So, the question becomes, what should I train to build out my turtle so that it can be as strong as possible and as likely as possible to get big KvK KE points? Should I train more T3s, or should I start training T1-2s and stop training T3s? Only you can answer that question for your situation and your goals.

But it is a complex decision that has to take into account how many hospital beds you have, whether you use your barracks to train a single batch per day or speed train troops during events, and whether you intend to carry around lots of resources or shield between hits etc, and how good you are with religiously shielding when not online.

There are an infinite number of ways which you can use to build an army of T1, T2 or T3 troops. Below is a comparison of 5 slightly different army compositions. The first ones are pure T1 or T2 armies. Then we get a mix of T1 and T3, or T2 and T3, and finally a pure T3 army. They are all designed to be 16M troop power. Why 16M troop power? Because that is in the ballpark for a lot of turtles. Having done all of the above in articles 1-4, most turtles will have a base power of around 10-25M, depending upon stronghold level and research levels. Adding 16M troop power takes you to around 26-40M.

There is a rough rule of thumb that says that in a Kill Event, no-one should solo a player who is 30M without a favourable scout report. So that is roughly what we aim for, around 30M. With power much higher than that, you will increasingly get more and more people setting rallies on you, and less people willing to solo you. As MZ releases more and more powerful hero gear, that rule of thumb number may creep up, and people will get comfortable soloing routinely up to 40M or even 50M. A few of our turtles are 65-70M and still take solo hits in Kill Events.

If it is the case that the 30M rule of thumb creeps up with ever better hero gear, then it is fantastic for turtles. It means you can add up to 10M more troop power, making your army 50-100% stronger, whilst their hero is only an incremental 5-20% stronger.

Time to go shopping for a turtle army

OK, it is time to go shopping for an army.  The currency we are using to purchase our army is power.  Not gold, not time, not resources, we are using power as our currency. And I’m sorry, but I am giving you a very strict budget.  You have exactly 16M power with which to purchase your army.

The table below presents 5 different potential combinations of tier 1,2 and 3 troops that add up to 16M power each.  Each army is exactly 16M power.  But beyond that, there are clearly differences in a variety of characteristics that will have varying levels of importance to each and every one of you.  The first 4 columns present the model name, and then the composition of the model armies in terms of numbers of T1, T2 or T3 troops.  The troop strength column presents a relative comparison of the strength of the armies using the strength ratings from the earlier table, being in this instance 1 for T1, 2 for T2, 3 for T3, and 4.5 for T4.

The next column shows the minimum number of hospital beds required to take 1 solo hit with current best available lead attacker permanent hero gear.  The final two columns show the training time for building each model army, as well as the total resources for training the armies.

Army build table

The chart above is again color coded with green / amber / red for our interpretation of the differences between the armies.  Green is best, red is worst, amber is in the middle.  The 247% training boost used is just used because it gives a nice round number of training days, and is similar to the training boost we have been using throughout this series, with around 70% training time reduction.

The first potential army being presented is our T1 monster, and as can be seen, it is the ‘strongest’, with double the relative strength of the closest comparator, the T2 army.  But as you can see, it has by far the highest purchase cost in terms of training time and resources, and requires the most hospital beds at 600k to take a full 375k T3-4 march without losing any troops.

Model 5, the pure T3 army with 666k T3, is by far the cheapest to build/train, as has been known for a long time.  If you want to add power quickly and cheaply, T3 is the way to go. But it is by far the weakest of the armies, with a relative strength of 2, being a quarter of the ‘strength’ of the T1 monster army of 8M T1s.  A

In between the two extremes of highest strength with highest resource / time cost, and lowest strength with lowest resource / time cost, are a range of different models with varying levels of army strength, hospital bed usage and resources required.

Replacement cost and consequences of being ZEROED

Another way of rolling all of these purchase costs into one figure for comparison is to consider the gold equivalents of each of these armies in terms of the amount of gold represented by the resource component, as well as the gold required to speed the training in terms of the gold cost of speed-ups.  It is true that almost no-one pays full 100% cost in gold terms for resources as set by MZ, but for the purposes of this analysis, it is a valid way of comparing the relative costs of the 5 armies.

The replacement cost of the army is most important to consider when pondering the possibility of being zeroed.  Your shield drops, and you get rallied when offline, waking up to find your army decimated, with hospital beds full and hero behind bars.  In that setting, Model 5 has by far the lowest risk. As outlined in Part 4 of this series, Model 5 is usually the preferred option for building an army in the setting where a player consistently trains a batch of around 5000 T3 each day without using speedups, and slowly increases his or her hospital bed capacity in tandem.  And if they succeed in getting their hospital bed capacity up to 600k, and they have 666k T3, then their risk is limited to a loss of 66k T3 if zeroed, which would take them about 13 days to retrain at 5000 per day, once their hero is returned or resurrected, of course.

Replacement cost if zeroed and hospital beds of 600k are full is outlined in the table below.

Army replacement cost

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

So, as you can see, because only 66k T3 die with Model 5 over and above the 600k healed, the replacement cost is lowest.  Model 4 loses 400k T3, but has a hospital full of 500k T2 and 100k T3.  Model 3 has a hospital full of 600k T1, and the replacement cost of 500k T3 and 1.4M T1 is higher at 1.09M gold.  Model 2 has 1.4M T2 to replace, which costs 1.02M.  And the Model 1 T1 monster has a very high replacement cost of 2.62M gold, given it has 600k T1 in hospital and 7.4M T1 dead.  🙁

Ongoing costs

Having considered purchase cost and replacement cost if zeroed, we will now look at ongoing running costs, including hospital healing costs when fighting.  Each of these accounts has a full wall of traps, and therefore effectively needs to be shielded 24/7 except when online and fighting.  Whilst 24 hour or 3-day shields are expensive, the cost of a shield is dwarfed by the replacement cost of your army, as well as the replacement cost of rebuilding your traps (not included in the above army replacement costs).  As we all know, wall traps can be very expensive to construct, so it really is best not to let them be destroyed in their entirety by letting yourself get zeroed.  For more discussion on traps, see our recent guide to traps.

Hospital healing costs

This is where it gets interesting.  The whole point of a turtle is to take hits, and in particular leverage Asymmetry 2, the fact that we have hospital beds and the attacker doesn’t.  Their troops die, ours don’t have to.  Table 1 above gave an outline of the minimum number of hospital beds to take a full T4 hit with the best currently available permanent hero gear, whether that be the Xena valentine set or a single troop focused set.  In that setting, what we expect is that for armies with T1s, that up to 600k will be hospitalised, whereas the equivalent figures are 300k for T2s and 200k for T3s.  This again reflects the 1,2,3 relative strengths of these troop types as outlined earlier in this article.

So let’s take a look at the relative healing costs for taking a single hit for these different armies.  We are assuming that for the armies with T1s, that 600k T1 need to be healed, 300k T2, and 200k T3 require healing respectively, in line with the guidance on minimum hospital capacity.  The data below is derived from using the heal tab of the Troop Training Calculator

There are two main factors that impact hospital healing speed.  The first is your training time boost, and the second is the hospital healing speed research that is available to be completed in the Hero research tree, down below Hero Trap attack and Hero trap defense.  Most turtles don’t complete this research, as it is a fair way down the tree, but it does offer a 70% boost on top of your training time boost.

The reason the hospital healing speed boost is important is that it is research which is not affected by resetting your hero tree.

Most turtles when they go into battle will reset their hero tree to maximise troop attack and health, and given how precious those hero tree skill points are, most people only apply the minimum of 5 points each to Troop training 1 and Troop training 2.  And it is also entirely possible that once everything is set up, your army is in place, you will have deconstructed villas to replace them with hospitals.  In that setting, it is entirely possible that your training time boost will be 26% (20% from the base training time research, and 6% from the 10 skill points).  If you max skill points on Troop training 2, then this increases to 115% training time boost, or 142% if you max both Troop training 1 and Troop training 2.  This is alot lower than the 230-250% training time boost that we have been talking out during the building phase of training your army.  If you want to get a personalised view of healing time given your training boosts and hospital healing research (if you have done it), please visit the Troop Training Calculator.

Army healing time

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Here you can see where T1s come into their own.  Instant heal is just such an important characteristic in the heat of the battle, that the models with T1 and instant heal are colored green, and everything else is colored red.  The resource cost of healing 600k T1, 300k T2 or 200k T3 are identical, the only thing that differs is the time it takes to heal them.

The three comparisons are at 26% training boost for 20% training research boost and 6% from setting the minimum of 5 hero skill points on each of Training Time 1 and Training Time 2.  Maximising Troop Training 2 skills gets us to 95%, for a total boost of 115%.  And the healing time at far right assumes that you have 20% research, 4-5 villas intact, as well as setting both troop training 1 and troop training 2.  Even with that situation, the minimum healing time is still 1d, for an equivalent of 1500 gold for a 24 hour speed.  So, at best, we are looking at 1500 gold to heal, and at worst 5630 gold (1x 3-day, 1x 15 hour, 1×60 minute) if you have T2 or T3 as your lowest tier troops going into hospital with each hit.

Top prize for Kill Events in the sh19-21 bracket currently nets 40K gold for 27 Million kill points.  That can be 2-10 hits, depending upon what your attacker throws at you.  If your army is pure T3, you have your training boosts at 26%, then healing 7-8 times will chew through the gold that you will win for hitting top prize.

But more importantly than that, the reason to heal is so that you have a chance to eat a second march sent at you very quickly, whether it is the same attacker sending a second march without hero, or a second attacker working in tandem with the first.  How quickly you can heal will determine how strong you are when that second march comes in, and the instant heal option for almost all of those above T2 or T3 options will come out as 4400 gold, because even the 1d for 300k T2 is just over 24 hours.  And the T3 at 26% is a 10000 gold cost for a 7-day.  So if you want to pay the minimum gold to heal that, then you have to choose queue all, then heal, then apply the various speedups to get all your troops out of hospital.  And in the heat of battle, that can be too slow.  Some people shield as soon as the first attack hits, then heal behind an 8-hour shield, then drop it to go back out into battle.  And therefore miss out on taking out a second march from the same attacker but without a hero.  With your hero at home, and them not including their hero for a second attack, it is not unusual to eat the whole march.  Even if that second march is only T3s rather than T4s, eating 375k T3s results in 15M Kill Event points.

Conclusion

This article has looked at the relative advantages and disadvantages of different troop tiers, and various ways in which a balanced army can be configured to fit into a defined power target of 16M power.  There are of course many other different ways that we could have configured those armies to fit within the 16M power constraint, including having a T1-2 option, as well as a mixture of all three troop tiers.  But we chose to keep this comparison to 5 models.  You don’t have those constraint, just as in the game you don’t have the artificial constraint of 16M troop power.   The 16M comes from the desire to keep our overall power at around 30M for the purpose of this guide to turtles.  If you believe you are capable of continuing to successfully bait to get people to hit you when you are 40M, then please go ahead and add an additional 10M troop power.  If you add 8M troop power, then you can simply add 50% onto the cost of the above armies.  The only model that will not scale as well is Model 1, the T1 monster, as adding another 4M or 8M T1 may run into the NERF limit (watch for a future test of this limit).

This article has been mostly theoretical looking at hypothetical armies designed to fit inside the single constraint of 16M power.  Having designed these 5 models, and talked about the costs of training them, and the costs of healing them, the next article will train them and test them.  We will hit these 5 armies across 2 different strongholds, and try and equalise the defensive boosts so that the comparison can be valid.  Each hit will be done using an attacker with the same 375k T3 army, identical gear, and identical boosts.

And the goal with that comparison is to assess how each balanced model army fares against the same attack on the attribute that some consider the most important, Kill Event points.  So, stay tuned for the next article: this shits about to get real.  Lots of battle reports coming your way.

 

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67 comments

  1. Very interesting about “Strength” values. Are these also for T1-T4 mobile traps? Has anyone got the values for T5-T8 troops and mobile traps?

  2. I guess this whole thing needs an update. With the new march research, T1 trap accounts are pretty much useless. 600K T4 with haunted samurai gear will cut through 900K+ T1 if you have good (lvl 6) kuniochi gear. I currently have almost all lvl 6 kuniochi gear (have lvl 5 haunted tabi boots and lvl 6 elite kabuto) and I’m having to kill off my T1. Originally I ran around 11.4 mil T1 and at 375K this worked great. Core hits would kill about 2-2.5 mil but that damage is pretty much going to be doubled. Yes, you will still win during a kill event with a tiered point system but having to retrain 4 mil T1 after one hit simply is not worth it. I actually got hit today by 440K T4 in a full set of fisherman cores and that resulted in 1.9 mil T1 wounded/killed (I now have 14.7 mil T1, 6 mil T2, and 3 mil T3 and sitting around 200 mil power). For those looking to build a trap, I hate to say it but skip the T1s and go straight to T2 troops with around 600K-800K beds. It won’t deal as much damage as the T1 traps but it simply is not sustainable to keep rebuilding millions of T1 troops after each hit. You’re already limited to 15 million T1 with the nerf and once you get hit twice by cores you’re already at half power. 40K gold is nowhere near enough to make up for those losses either.

  3. Profile photo of Ghoran

    Did you guys ever test that nerf limit? I never saw the article if you did.

    • I saw someone test it and post pictures on IG. Once you past 15 million, you’re getting nerfed. On the other hand, I recently ran into some problems that may have to do with the nerf (waiting on feedback ticket from MZ). I used to run 11.4 mil T1 with T3 traps (sh21 with T3 troops unlocked) and never had any issues with the nerf. I recently trained a ton of troops in order to counter the 600K solo march size and now I’m at 13.7 mil T1, 5 mil T2, and 3 mil T3. I actually got hit by 375K T4 without a hero and 210K T2 ended up wounded along with 1.1K T1. I have 800K beds and had millions of troops to spare so something is definitely wrong. My T2 troops should not have received any sort of damage. Not to mention I have almost all great lvl 6 gear (3 lvl 6 kunai, lvl 6 machete, lvl 5 haunted tabi boots, lvl 6 cloak, and lvl 6 elite kabuto) so this should have at most wounded like 1K T1 and nothing else. I have no idea why 210K T2 (exactly 70K of each kind) were wounded.

  4. wow this is a great site i have developed a turtle account that takes hits from 3bill players with minimal loss i hold 515k in my hospitals im sh21 only 200 mill power but 160mill is research and i only hold 3.5 mill troops 1mill T1 and 2Mill T2 500K T4 i desided late to become defence turtle but i have found my jems help a lot my war gear is mixed and all slots hold lvl6 gems trap health defence and one of each attack. oh i have 100K t4 walls and 90K mixed t2 but after several hits i lose the t2 walls so i fill up with war bricks las hit i took was full hospitals and 60K T1 killed and out of a T4 375K only 140K returned to him still working on it but now i have found this site things are moor clearer cheers..

  5. How does it work with hospital beds and different tier troops? I saw a chart that mentioned .3 beds per T3 troop, does that mean that 600k T3 troops only needs 200k beds? Thanks and great information on this site, fantastic work.

  6. I am trying to be a solo turtle. I’ve been under shield for months and I’m getting itchy to see how this works. I’ve got a good set of Xena Gear and my Troop Health is 387% with all of my gear on. I have a 50% t3 trap shield and 50% t1 traps that I’m replacing to all t3s. I have 1 mill t1’s and 200K t3 troops. Am I at the point where I can take a full t4 375K solo hit and no lose any troops? I have 320K hospital beds. Thanks for any help.

  7. Thanks for all the Guides. What is the recommended strategy (number of Villas and Barracks) to build the 8M T1 troops the fastest. I want to pop a 30-day shield and start working,

  8. if i have 600,000 beds and an equal number of troops, and they all go to the hospital, will my hero get taken?

    • Profile photo of silverhair

      They need to destroy all your traps first, but once all troops are gone and all traps are gone, then yes, your Hero gets taken. Your hero cannot go to hospital.

  9. I have seen conflicting info on hospitals, maybe you can help. If I have 400k hospital beds and a mix of troops all in excess of 1 million. Assuming an attack that kills/hospitalizes 1 million troops, which troops go to the hospital the lowest tier or highest?

    • Profile photo of silverhair

      If you get rallied and zeroed in ONE HIT, your hospitals will be full of the highest tier troops you have. So if you have 1M T1, 1M T2 and 1M T3, then you will have 400k T3 in your hospital, and 1M T1 dead, 1M T2 dead, 600k T3 dead. If you take a solo hit, then it is highly likely that the solo hit will only hospitalise T1 troops on the first hit. Let’s say that your hospital beds are filled on one hit. If the attack is powerful enough to affect 600k T1, then you will have 400k T1 in hospital, 200k T1 dead, 400k alive, in addition to your 1M T2 and 1M T3 both still alive after the first hit. If they keep hitting you whilst offline, then your remaining T1 will die on the second hit, and some of your T2. Then next hit will kill T2. It may take 2-3 hits to get through the T2, then another 2-4 hits to kill all of the T3. You would be left with 400k T1 in your hospital.
      In the intermediate power hit, the attacker has 7 level 6 cores with single troop type attack. They affect 1.2M troops with that hit, so all your T1 and some of your T2. T2 take priority for hospitalisations over T1, so 200k T2 go to hospital first, followed by 200k T1, then the remaining 800k T1 die.

  10. Could you expand on the fatalities of full marches against the different turtle accounts, specifically, how many of each troop is required as they relate to beds.

    For example, if I increase the t1 account to 10M, what proportion of the 600k in beds is still needed or if I have 2m t3 troops, do I only need 1/3 of the beds ?

    • Profile photo of silverhair

      The number of beds required is mostly dependent upon the strength of the attack thrown at you. So, they throw 375k infantry T4 at you with 800% attack boost. That magnitude of attack is anticipated to do around 600k T1 damage, or 200k T3 damage, depending upon your troop health and troop defence.
      There is a small reduction in hospital bed requirement by increasing your troop numbers, but doubling troop count does not halve your hospital bed requirement. Tripling your army size does not mean you only require 1/3 as many beds. The damage delivered is the damage delivered, with a modest reduction for the size of your army.
      The only thing that has that kind of magnitude of benefit is doubling or tripling your defensive combat boosts.
      On the attacking side, doubling your troop numbers delivers basically twice the damage to their army. So whilst doubling troop size has a modest defensive benefit, doubling troop size has a major offensive benefit.

  11. Could one do a t2 core with t1 shield? Is it practical and what would the troop ratio look like?

    • Yes, Absolutely you can. In keeping with 16M troop power approach, replace T2 with T1 in a ratio of 4:1. So 1.85M T2 and 600k T1. Or 1.7M T2 and 1.2M T1. The only limit is your imagination. And 16M troop power is an artificial constraint purely for this guide. You can quite comfortably build your T2 core and then just keep slowly training T1 until you are sick of it. Just make sure you have enough hospital beds.

  12. When the next part will be published?

    Its been about two weeks since last part.

  13. Would love to see a guide on the best gear for a trap account. From what I’ve read, the preferred boosts are for attack and not defense but how does health factor into the mix? And since you’re not actually attacking with a single troop type, do you prioritize troop attack over troop health?

  14. Hey Slaggy, Nooby here. This series was fantastic. Exceedingly well done. Best read on GoW I’ve come across online. You guys outdid yourselves. Your research on quanitifiable variables has been superlative, I really can’t add to it. However I do want to add a few observations on non-quantifiable variables.

    Regardless of relative SH-size and power level, at some point as a trap you become very successful. That success is expressed for all to see in your profile pick in absolute kills, deaths and kdr. Within a few KEs a successful trap will have well into the double-digit millions of kills and a kdr upwards of 3-4. There’s just no hiding it. Also, I use kdr as an indicator to guesstimate a player’s relative effectiveness or experience level in combat. As soon as my kills crossed into the 30 millions range I actually noticed a sharp dropoff in solo attacks. All the debate about size, power, which buildings or research etc. is all fine in theory, but in this game we wear our succes rate on our foreheads for all to see, there’s no hiding it. Only careless players ignore the red flashing 38 MILLION KILLS 3.4 KDR sign….

    Also, contrary to common sense, I’ve found that as Core gear has been integrated into game play, players are MORE hesitant to solo than before, not less so. This would appear to defy numerical logic, but like stock tickers… the numbers are not absolute values, but expressions of value perceptions by market participants. In our case, Core gear itself gives players more attacking power, but that is a flat assumption that ignores the simple fact that players who research Core gear do more research on the game in general, and as they learn about Core gear they also learn the rules of soloing. Based on the totality of my reports I have to conclude there is a direct correlation between bad gear and players who solo attack… the correlation being… the worse a player’s gear, the more inclined they are to attempt to solo. This would appear to defy the numerical facts expressed by understanding gear strengths, but belies the simple fact that inexperienced players are the ones most likely to solo, regardless of their gear, and experienced players the most likely to rally. Regardless of their gear. If anything, I’ve found Core gear to be a trap nerf for the simple fact explained above: using Core gear implies a better understanding of game dynamics, and in the end most players with that degree of understanding have stopped soloing at all.

    Basically GoW is shifiting to the rally game, and we’ve found over the last few KEs that Core gear and rally time reduction have essentially nerfed effective trap play as far as we’re concerned within our alliance. Before the introduction of Core gear my trap could take a full rally hit with good relics. Those days are over. The only way to take a full T4 rally @ 2.375 million troops with some variation of the 1200% gear stacked is to add xxx number of troops adding who-knows-how many tens-of-million in power.

    Sorry to see you sold your account. Keep up the good work. Good reads.

    • Make a rally trap. 10m t1 5m t2. 200kt3 600k t4. Thats what i am. But i have 40m kills 60m lost. Looks like my days are numbered too, if people realize bad kdr means huge rally trap. I was 21m t1, definitely nerfed. Lost a solo, killed all 312k t4, but lost 1.5mt1. Lol.

      10m t1 I got someone to test. Got hero np, so nerf is in between there. I wish I knew where, it is difficult to get players to solo me to test. t4 ain’t cheap.

      Rally trap will win kvk ke, depending on how smart the outlanders are. We played some pretty low intelligence ones last kvk. A 130m player beat me eating solos……. so bad. Ahhaha.

      I wish mz wouldn’t show our stats. And i wish they would publish positive points.

  15. Hi, can you tell me what would be best gear to build for a turtle account?

    • My suggestion is that you start with the defensive list on our combat gear page, which is weighted to prioritise overall troop attack, and if you are able to craft pieces from there, then go for it. Note that the best pieces here will require special event materials. If you have some gaps from that list, then work your way through the bargain list for gear that only requires standard materials.
      Head to the combat gear page at http://www.insidegameofwar.com/best-combat-gear/

      • jkm0405 here. I just noticed that you responded to this question already, which I had posed earlier. But per my comment, is the list of best defense gear really applicable for Trap/Turtle accounts? Since the objective is the kill as many of the enemy troops as possible, I’ve heard that attack and health boosts are preferred over defense boosts. So then, isn’t the best gear that which has the highest troop attack and troop health boosts? Of the two, which is better?

      • Profile photo of silverhair

        If you look at the gear in that DEFENSE tab on the combat gear page, it is pretty heavily skewed towards pieces with overall troop attack as their primary stat, followed by troop health. The vulture tiara for example, has 42% troop attack and 33% troop health debuff, and reapers hood with 38% troop attack and some health as secondary stat. The only piece on that list with troop defense as its dominant stat is the Harvest Boots with 43% troop defense. Everything else is a mix of troop attack, troop attack debuff, troop health or troop health debuff. And when I say troop attack, I mean overall troop attack, not individual troop attack.

  16. g’day there…

    thanks for the info…. i am an old turtle that’s starting to move on into the T4 troop/trap area…. will you be writing any articles about setting up a rally eater city?

    cheers and thanks for the great work….

  17. Truly great series, thank you so much. I appreciated all the explanation and detail, and learned so much. I do have a question on troops, and maybe I’m overlooking something obvious. With both your meat shield and main force, do you go with an even mix of the 3 troop types, or focus on one type for your main, like infantry for instance, with a meat shield that’s complementary, like cavalry in this instance?

    • Depends upon the composition of your main army force. The most common is an evenly balanced army. Part 6 of this series (up in next 24 hours or so) tests all balanced regular troop armies. Discussion of meat shield design including size and composition will be dealt with in a future article, and include discussion of using balanced main army, with single troop type meat shield.

      • I’m looking forward to part 6, as well as the future article. Most folks in my alliance that use a turtle build have one troop type as their main force (t3) and whatever protects that type as their meat shield (t2). I’d really like to give the t3/t1 build a try, so just wanted a better idea on what to be building. Thanks again for all your hard work and depth!

  18. Do the numbers you have above about minimum number of hospital beds assume a full wall of traps as well? n I am keeping my SH at 14 so only using t2 traps and troops of course. I have full wall and every research possible is maxed out. I have taken a 250k t4 hit with no troops killed but haven’t yet been hit by 375k t4 so not sure how many t2s I would need (your article says 300k losses but not sure if that assumes no traps, full t2 traps or full t3 traps). And thanks by the way, this is realy useful stuff.

    • Profile photo of silverhair

      The number of hospital beds recommended to take any single individual hit is determined more by the boosts of the attacking hero than by your stats. Whilst having more traps can reduce slightly the damage of the incoming attacker, it really comes down to the attack strength of their hero, the number and tier of troops they send, and the number of troops you have in concert with the troop health / defines stats of your attacker. Sh14 can only have 40k T2 traps, which will be dwarfed by most sh14 turtle T1-2 armies of 1-10M troops. I wouldn’t worry as much about the trap component of your sh14 turtle, and focus more on number and tier of troop, and getting your hero as strong as possible.

  19. Been waiting for this update!! Thanks!!! Great site – trying to get my alliance to use it – we’re small and young in Marcario (450) j7z

  20. MoreMoneyMorePowerNoBrains

    Theres no category for T1 and T2. 4M T1, 1M T2,is there a reason for this?

    • The answer is in the first paragraph of the conclusion. Because I made a decision that 5 models was enough to build and train and attack. Likewise I haven’t presented a T1/T2/T3 mix. I will address both of those in a future article looking at meat shield design and layering of troops.

  21. These guides are unreadable. “What’s the best way to setup a turtle account? Here’s a dozen different ways to do it, but most of them aren’t worth trying because they’ll give you too much power.”

    I have pre-written messages with info on the best turtle setups I’ve found that are less than 500 characters so I can send them in game. Everyone knows there’s dozens of ways to setup an account. People want guidance, not a short novel.

    Slaggy – keep up the good content. Silverhair – trim the fluff.

    • MoreMoneyMorePowerNoBrains

      Speak for yourself, not everyone. I want as much information as possible, and the guides are doing a great job doing that. Fluff is useless information, dont see any here. If you dont like the charts and comparisons, ignore them. Guides are only unreadable if you have zero knowledge of the game or illiterate. If you have zero knowledge of the game,youre not ready for turtle account

      • That’s really meaningful coming from someone with “NoBrains” in their username.

        Zero knowledge of the game? I guess the 1b points I get every KvK with my turtle account or the 15m I give up to get it must pale in comparison to someone such as yourself whose knowledge and literacy so far surpass my own. I offered criticism, you offered an attack. Keep your personal insults to yourself.

    • Fair call. I have always had trouble being concise, and I always over-analyze. Very valid criticisms. I agree that what most people want is advice and to be told what to do. Slaggy’s first comment to me when discussing this series was whether an executive summary with recommendations should go at the start, or at the end. I have chosen to do it at the end.
      Congrats on your regular high performance as a turtle / trap in KE.
      I will try to be more concise, less theoretical and include more concrete battle reports from now on.

      Max your combat research for your level.
      Keep overall power around 30-40M.
      Build 600k hospital beds.
      Train a lot of low-tier troops.
      Full T3 wall.
      Get great gear focused on troop attack and health.
      Stay shielded when not fighting.
      When fighting, bait like crazy.

      How’s that?

      • I was a little harsh in my original comment. I search for ways to improve my existing strategy – for me, I already know the many theories so I just want to see if someone has a better theory than what I’ve already come up with. But, I’m sure for others who are new to the game or who currently have no solid direction, the lack of concision is helpful for them to see the bigger picture on how the game works. I hope it helps them.

        “Max your combat research for your level.
        Keep overall power around 30-40M.
        Build 600k hospital beds.
        Train a lot of low-tier troops.
        Full T3 wall.
        Get great gear focused on troop attack and health.
        Stay shielded when not fighting.
        When fighting, bait like crazy.”

        Maybe just a little more fluff than that. 😉

      • Maybe it’s because most of the messages I send out to my alliance require 2 emails minimum to include all of the information I send out…but I enjoy the longer detailed version of this entire thing.

        Having all of the information out there allows people to do what’s best for them, or think of something they haven’t tried. If you are really getting 1 billion points per event with your trap account puts you in the top 1-2% in this game as far as understanding trap accounts and functionality…and it probably means you are about as close to optimal for an account as you can get.

    • Profile photo of Slaggy

      Hi John,
      A lot of people have got a lot of benefit from these guides. They are not or everyone as, as you say, they are long and thorough. Some people love that, some people want more direct guidance. As silverhair mentions, the summary article (which will be coming out last) should cover it all in a more concise format.

  22. It’s my understanding that the Nerf rules don’t apply if you haven’t unlocked the next tier of troops. For example, Nerf rules wouldn’t apply to Tier 2 troops if you haven’t unlocked tier 3 trips yet. Does anyone know if that is true? How would that affect the strategy of building a Turtle account?

  23. what is best for a trap account?
    trap attack or health bonus

  24. When is part 6 going to be available.

  25. thanks for the article

    Is researching Troop Health from 1 to 9 gives only 25% troop health boost or I should sum up health boost and get 1%+2%+4%….= 91%?

  26. i have 900k T2 and 900K T3, mixed regular troops and about 100k T3 traps currently, how should i be setting up my hero skill points? and what boosts should i prioritise with my gear and gems?

  27. Silverhair, great article.

    Before you wrap up your series on turtles, please look into the relative effectiveness of health, defense, and attack for different turtle designs. Then use that to recommend some gear and gem strategies.

    If the ideal turtle gear is significantly different from what would be recommended for regular offensive accounts, hopefully Slaggy will make a new gear category in his guide that shows the best options for turtles.

    Here’s my guess on the values of combat stats:

    Health: Very important to semi-important, depending on troop count (more troops –> less important health)
    Defense: Very important (more important than anything else if you have a very large troop count)
    Attack: Very important regardless of troop count
    Health Debuff: Very important
    Attack Debuff: Very important
    Defense Debuff: Nearly useless in most cases

    If those guesses are right, then the gear and gem recommendations would be different from what is currently listed as the best gear.

    • I always planned to do something like this comparing utility of boosts on the Model 1 8M T1 account and the Model 5 T3 account.

      • Excellent. Thanks silverhair.

        I’ve been pestering Slaggy for this, and for the release of the Battle Calculator.

        What I really want is to figure out a gear strategy for solo turtles and my big rally turtle. But seeing your recommendations for Model 1 vs Model 5 will give me a good sense of things.

  28. I done a quick tests and the TROOP STRENGTH here is correct !!! 1t4 is only worth 4.5t1. What’s a pity that we don’t figured that out earlier haha.
    Very well done series. People, watch those profile stats before you hit!!
    P/S: I got one zeroed account with worst combat stats ever. Will turn in into deadly traps

  29. xxxSALTHEART #136

    Silver, I just want to commend you on what an outstanding job you’ve done on this series. I really can’t say enough good things about it and how helpful it will be for so many. Very, very professional…

  30. Im in the midst of building the trap that has 500K T3 and a million plus of T1’s. I’m mostly wanting the instant healing capabilities of the T1’s but how do I avoid my T3’s going to the hospital and filling up my beds first? I want to keep taking multiple marches and I am usually reinforced with 375k of T4’s but healing T3’s instantly takes a lot of RSS. Thus the appeal of T1’s and zero points given but I keep finding my T3’s hit the beds first and I have 500K T3 at the moment and 100k of T1. I was going to do a big push and build the troops up but I am holding off until I know for sure how to have the T1’s go to the beds first as it’s logical that they are the weakest and would be killed/hospitalized first. Any insight on this would be appreciated.

    • If you have 1M T1, with a standard solo March attack, the T1 will always go into hospital before T3.

      In the situation where you have a thin 100k T1 meat shield, then the HIGHEST tier takes the priority if affected. Say you get attacked and 200k troops are affected, then your T3 get the beds first, and the affected T1s then either get hospitalised or die depending upon your hospital capacity.

      If you have 1M T1, your T3 only get hurt if you make a big mistake and let yourself get zeroed by multiple attacks whilst offline or by taking a rally that you shouldn’t.

    • Your beds will be filled with the highest tier of troops killed in a single battle. If someone wounds more troops then you have beds your t1s will die first while t3s fill your beds.

  31. Bro…got your point…it’s very much clear. ….now there’s jujust one confusion about Nerf…now 450t1 is equalant to 100k t4s. …so going with 1350k t1s for one kind of troop. …1350k x 3kinds troop =4050k t1s to compete 300k t4s. .and it will gain 8.1million power. …keeping it below 5000k. .so it can’t get nerfed….now m looking for next tier…after this if I go with t2s will that be added in Nerf limit…or it’s having. Extraa limit???m on SH18 with 8level research as I told you before……thanx for your reply in advance….this will help a lot

    • Your suggested 4050k balanced T1 is not the same strength as 300k T4, but rather 900k T4. Yes it is less than 5M T1, which you state is the NERF limit. I have an 8M T1 turtle at sh21, and I can assure you it is not NERFed. Watch for next article to prove it works well, and then for a future article looking specifically at the NERF limit for T1.

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